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D&D 5E
Jan 10, 2012 16:36:01 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Jan 10, 2012 16:36:01 GMT -5
www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120109"As you may have read in the New York Times, it’s an exciting time for Dungeons & Dragons. We are happy to announce today that we are developing the next iteration of D&D, and will be looking to the legions of D&D fans to help shape the future of the game along with us. Our mission is to ensure that D&D enters its next 40 years as a vibrant, growing, and exciting game. By listening to the needs of the D&D community, we can meet this goal. As part of our increased efforts to engage with the player-base, we launched a series of weekly articles in early 2011, including Rule of Three and Legends & Lore, to give you a voice in our work. We’ve listened to both praise and criticism from all D&D fans, regardless of their edition of choice, and we’ll continue to do so. That is why we are excited to share with you that starting in Spring 2012, we will be taking this process one step further and conducting ongoing open playtests with the gaming community to gather feedback on the new iteration of the game as we develop it. With your feedback and involvement, we can make D&D better than ever. We seek to build a foundation for the long-term health and growth of D&D, one rooted in the vital traits that make D&D unique and special. We want a game that rises above differences of play styles, campaign settings, and editions, one that takes the fundamental essence of D&D and brings it to the forefront of the game. In short, we want a game that is as simple or complex as you please, its action focused on combat, intrigue, and exploration as you desire. We want a game that is unmistakably D&D, but one that can easily become your D&D, the game that you want to run and play." www.wired.com/geekdad/2012/01/5th-edition-dungeons-and-dragons/
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D&D 5E
Jan 16, 2012 22:23:19 GMT -5
Post by Aerin, the half-elf priestess on Jan 16, 2012 22:23:19 GMT -5
Wizards has completely given up on 4th Edition because it was a failure. They lost money and were not able to publish all of their desired books. They also had plans to create D&D 4.5 Edition, but they scratched the idea once they saw how poorly 4th Edition did. Now they are trying to create 5th Edition, which may very well fail as well.
I, on the other hand, will keep working hard to perfect TIER. It should be completed during February, which means I can start selling the official TIER book at the end of February or the beginning of March at the latest.
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D&D 5E
Jan 19, 2012 11:53:05 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Jan 19, 2012 11:53:05 GMT -5
What's funny is that a lot of people hate 4th Edition for really weird reasons, like "it's too much like a video game" and stuff like that, when the opposite is actually true. I think a lot of the hate for 4th Edition is actually from people that never even bothered to play it! Which makes it very strange.
I think that 5th Edition is a great PR move and D&D will go back to outselling Pathfinder with it.
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D&D 5E
Jan 20, 2012 9:17:52 GMT -5
Post by Aerin, the half-elf priestess on Jan 20, 2012 9:17:52 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that all D&D fans have tried playing D&D 4.0 at least once. I played it due to curiosity and found out how bad it was. The hate comes from everyone because it's a poorly developed game. It only sold because it had pretty artwork.
I guarantee that I have put much more work into TIER than they ever put into D&D 4.0. I know this because I fixed many problems in TIER by conducting 3 years of playtesting with a variety of players. Every time we found an issue, we paused the game, took notes, and figured out how to fix it.
I played D&D 4.0 for multiple sessions and found tons of issues with the game mechanics. This is proof that they did not spend any time playtesting their game.
D&D 4.0 was a major scam and Wizards does not deserve another chance unless they sign-up a whole new crew of game makers and playtesters. I tried offering my help for D&D 5.0, but they declined.
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D&D 5E
Jan 20, 2012 16:42:10 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Jan 20, 2012 16:42:10 GMT -5
I don't think the game is poorly developed at all, but it does have some things that can be difficult to adjust to if you're very used to D&D 3.5. I think its biggest success is giving all characters something to do at all times where they won't feel useless. Its biggest failing is that character versatility suffered and a lot of characters feel like they play very similar to each other in the long run, and the way skills work make it difficult for some characters to contribute mechanically outside of combat.
A non-trivial amount of people who actually hate 4th Edition have not actually played the game, or have only read the book without trying to understand it. I think trying to say that it only sold because it had pretty artwork isn't true at all! Many people thoroughly enjoy the game to this day and it still sees decent sales and also has online support in the form of Dungeons and Dragons Insider. The biggest problem is that it divided the community between people who still loved 3.5 and people who loved 4th, and losing that many players to that divide has always been difficult to bridge. It's been made a lot worse since Paizo took the opportunity to practically steal a lot of players by promising to continue supporting the 3.5 players by essentially updating 3.5 instead!
Another huge problem is that it's very difficult to make material for 4th Edition. It was very easy for players to develop things for 3.5 because the OGL allowed everyone who wanted to try to develop something for the system to do so -- and the entire system was available for free if you wanted to develop things for it in the form of the SRD. They didn't keep the OGL for 4th Edition despite 3rd Edition making them a lot of money. (Well, a lot of money for an RPG! Tabletop RPGs are not very good in terms of business, since they do not make a lot of money and they can't be easily monetized like a Magic: the Gathering can be.)
So now, the undisputed king of tabletop is Pathfinder by a wide margin. It's surprising, too, because Pathfinder doesn't really do much to fix many of the problems in D&D 3.5 and still suffers from things like spellcaster supremacy...
I think the key to an innovative system would be to distance oneself from the "core" of Dungeons and Dragons (ability scores, classes, races, levels, "saves" and Armor Class and all the things that are considered "sacred cows" of Dungeons and Dragons). But, the key to a successful system would be to sufficiently market any system one made to new players in the form of an Introductory Product like the Dungeons and Dragons Essentials Red Box or the Pathfinder introductory box set. This is probably why games like World of Darkness and others have a difficult time competing; there's a limited market for them and they don't try to appeal to the mass market in the first place.
I don't know a lot about TIER (I found it while searching for random RPGs online) but it seems like you went half way trying to separate yourself from D&D: you moved away from classes and tried to create a more modular system, but it looks like a carefully (and long) thought out house-ruling of D&D 3.5... Not enough looks different save from me being unable to find anything about classes.
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D&D 5E
Jan 20, 2012 19:52:15 GMT -5
Post by Aerin, the half-elf priestess on Jan 20, 2012 19:52:15 GMT -5
D&D 3.5 was a fantastic system! That's why people still play it along with Pathfinder. The only issues it had involved balance. Certain classes were worthless. And magic spell casters were super powerful. So I decided to take D&D 3.5 and completely re-vamp it. I took out classes, created a system of Masteries, and fixed any and all problems the game had. I made class skills more useful, made all forms of magic useful so that arcane didn't dominate, and I fixed many other small issues.
I have played many different RPGs over the past 12 years and I can guarantee that I have created one of the best games of all time. Definitely better than D&D 4.0 and Pathfinder. I took everything I learned from multiple RPGs and re-created them the way I wanted and the way fellow players wanted. That's why I have done 3 years of playtesting so that I don't make any stupid mistakes.
So yes, my game is similar to D&D 3.5, but it's much better without classes. Players can truly make any character and do anything. But this ultimate freedom comes at a price. You cannot do everything so you must choose your Masteries wisely. In the end, every character is now a useful and awesome character who is able to learn, grow, and adjust to a variety of situations. And if you feel that your character has a weakness or something you don't like, you can obtain a Mastery at an upcoming level-up to fix character weaknesses or further strengthen your best abilities.
That's the power of TIER. Classes in RPGs are a major negative because every class has specific weaknesses that are easy to exploit. But in TIER you can select Masteries to make a character any way you want and your enemy will not know your weaknesses at the beginning. In TIER, you don't have a label on your head that says "I'm a rogue, so I have low HP, fortitude, and will saves". That's why classes suck and TIER makes a very important point to eliminate classes.
If you want to know more about TIER, ask me questions and I'll let you in on more secrets. Try the sample material, make your own level 5 character, and then tell me you don't like it. Tier has 100+ Masteries to choose from, which means you can make a thousand different characters that are all incredible, unique, and exciting to play.
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D&D 5E
Jan 25, 2012 16:03:02 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Jan 25, 2012 16:03:02 GMT -5
You mention level 5... what about lower and higher levels? Are level 1 characters interesting? Does the game devolve once players reach 15th or higher level? Is the game vastly different then?
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D&D 5E
Jan 25, 2012 22:26:57 GMT -5
Post by Aerin, the half-elf priestess on Jan 25, 2012 22:26:57 GMT -5
I originally had a "build your own character" page for level 2 characters, but then I changed it to level 5 to let people build more crazy stuff. The game is incredible from level 1 all the way to level 40. It's been thoroughly playtested at all levels and is a ton of fun. The game is fun because character level does not matter for most Masteries. You can take almost any Mastery at any time, which makes the game exciting and unpredictable. There are a few exceptions: Magic Masteries must be taken at level 1, Transformation Masteries can be taken at level 16 or higher, and Epic Masteries can be taken at level 21 or higher.
At level 1, you begin with 3 Masteries, or 4 if you decide to play a human. This means you can make a variety of ridiculous characters at level 1 or higher. With 100+ Masteries to choose from, just imagine the possibilities.
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D&D 5E
Jan 27, 2012 13:07:01 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Jan 27, 2012 13:07:01 GMT -5
What's a Mastery? Is that like a feat?
If you have no classes, where do all the unique abilities come from? I guess they also come from these masteries?
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D&D 5E
Jan 27, 2012 16:09:51 GMT -5
Post by Aerin, the half-elf priestess on Jan 27, 2012 16:09:51 GMT -5
Feats are way too weak, which is why I created Masteries. One Mastery is the equivalent of about 3 or 4 feats combined. Masteries represent all abilities that you would normally gain through classes.
If you are curious about how Masteries work, go to the "Rules and Changes" section or the "Sample Materials" section. These sections of the website have Masteries with full descriptions. They are all very interesting and allow for almost any type of character.
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D&D 5E
Jan 30, 2012 16:47:23 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Jan 30, 2012 16:47:23 GMT -5
I don't understand. How would you give unique abilities to a character, such as the class features that a prestige class in 3.5 would give?
More importantly, how are feats weak? There are a number of very strong feats in 3.5 (some of the problem was that there are a lot of feats that are too strong, in fact). It makes more sense if you think of it in the sense that, there being no unique class abilities, you gain most of your strength through these super-feats instead. But happens to the unique flavor of prestige classes?
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D&D 5E
Jan 30, 2012 17:43:31 GMT -5
Post by Aerin, the half-elf priestess on Jan 30, 2012 17:43:31 GMT -5
Don't hate until you play the game. It's got tons of unique abilities and cool stuff in it. You sound like you still haven't read the sample Masteries. TIER allows you to do things that 3.5 and other games have never allowed before. Through years of playtesting, I created and balanced out unique abilities to make TIER both enjoyable and fair to all types of characters. Try out all the sample material with your friends and you will see that the game is a lot of fun and full of possibilities.
By the way, you say Feats aren't weak? Dodge: +1 AC? Garbage. Weapon Focus: +1 Attack roll? Garbage. Dash: +5 base speed? Garbage.
Look at my Masteries and you'll see what power you can wield in TIER.
Trust me and just try it. I have playtested with a variety of players and they all love it. I am currently running a fantastic TIER/Faerun campaign with a group that started playing at level 1 and now we're level 19. We've been playing every week for the past 6 months and they still love it. We post our quests and character information online every week.
I understand your love for 3.5 because I ran a 5-year long campaign for 3.5 and it was awesome. I wrote journal entries for every session on Microsoft Word and it's 189 pages single-spaced. I absolutely love 3.5, but it's time to upgrade to a newer game. Try TIER out and I promise you'll like it. I made this game in honor of 3.5 and I made it because 4.0 is awful.
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D&D 5E
Jan 31, 2012 12:03:09 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Jan 31, 2012 12:03:09 GMT -5
Core 3.5 feats may seem weak, but there game is much bigger than just the core book. Compare and contrast it to feats like Shock Trooper, or a large number of the metamagic feats, and you'll see that many feats are actually very strong given the context of the game.
Additionally, feats do not have to be very strong in 3.5 because classes bring most of the "cool" to a character's build.
I am not hating! I don't think I've hated at any point in my post, here. I'm trying to understand where the things that come from prestige classes go... and I'm not referring specifically to things like being able to obtain an ability like "Mettle" but some of the more unique features available to many different classes.
For example, the Tome of Battle introduces a large amount of features that make melee classes truly interesting in ways other than "I swing my weapon" -- do you have anything like this in TIER?
Also, I will disagree with you that 4.0 is awful. It is a great game that caters to a slightly different audience, in the same way that a game like the World of Darkness is another tabletop game that caters to another separate audience.
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D&D 5E
Jan 31, 2012 21:38:04 GMT -5
Post by Aerin, the half-elf priestess on Jan 31, 2012 21:38:04 GMT -5
Obviously this is my first book and I tried to include as much "cool" material as possible. Considering that I created 100+ Masteries along with all the game rules and material needed to play the game, I think I did a pretty good job. If this book is successful, I will develop more books such as one for Psionics and another book with additional Masteries, monsters, character options, and etc.
By the way, my game does allow you to obtain "Mettle" and many cool abilities through Masteries.
As for the Tome of Battle, it was a failure in my opinion because it simply turned warriors into spellcasters by giving them ridiculous abilities similar to magic. They were unbalanced and stupid. My friend built a character that could perform 24 attacks in a single round using the Tome of Battle.
However, my game does have unique attacks and cool things that you can do in order to make warriors very interesting. If you look at my Masteries in the "Sample Material" section, you will find unique attacks such as "Limb Shot" which allows you to disable opponents' arms, legs, wings, etc. There are many different unique attacks which allow you to do a variety of things. Most importantly, my game has Transformations which allow you to gain a variety of interesting abilities and stat bonuses. You can read more about Transformations in the "Rules and Changes" section of the website.
My biggest issue with D&D 4.0 is that it has been very dumbed down, limited, and too simple. It's great for newbies, but awful for veterans who want to have a variety of abilities and options or the capability to customize their characters.
In the end, I never meant to insult you or accuse you of "hating". I said the hating part as a joke. Regardless, I was concerned that you were judging the game of TIER without playing it or at least reading the Masteries and capabilities. TIER allows you to create any character and live the dream of making a true hero. I grew up with great heroes such as superman, batman, spiderman, and etc. I didn't grow up with bards, clerics, rogues, and etc. So that's why I removed classes in order to allow people to create and play true heroes.
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D&D 5E
Feb 1, 2012 13:28:54 GMT -5
Post by netrpg on Feb 1, 2012 13:28:54 GMT -5
There's easier ways to get 24 attacks in a round than the Tome of Battle! It's easy to do with a Fighter. Let's not even forget silly things that can be done in 3.5E, like the famous kobold who becomes a god at level 4! There's a lot of creative people on the Wizards forums. (I forgot what the name of the character was; I think it was called Peanut.) 3.5E has a lot of loopholes and a lot of items that make 24 attacks in a round via the Tome of Battle kind of like a cool party trick. And regardless of how many attacks someone can make in a round, I think you forget that in 3.5E, no amount of attacks after level 12 will prevent you from dying in turn one to any reasonably-prepared spellcaster! 3.5's balance is wildly tilted in the favor of spellcasting. Just with the core PHB alone, Clerics, Druids and Wizards are singlehandedly the strongest classes in the entire game from the get-go, regardless of any book you introduce. They are the best classes primarily because they have access to spells that outright change the nature of the game instantly. They have answers to practically every problem in the game, both in combat and out. Have you ever read the analysis of power in 3.5? They break all the major core classes into "Tiers" (hah!) so that people can get a better grasp of how things are. It's a good read! I dug up a link and found it here: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=lnvll3jkin105u2prbea8d7mf7&topic=5293Of note: The characters from the Tome of Battle only rank in "Tier 3" when it comes to power ability. 3.5E is wildly, grossly unbalanced, and I always grin when people try to tell me that any of the melee classes are broken. The Tome of Battle actually made melee characters worth playing again, and the vast majority of ideas out of that book were what turned into 4.0! The problem there is that they may have limited spellcasters a bit too much, but at the very least the power level was "pulled together" in a satisfying way. That said, 3.5E is very fun, because you can build a myriad of insane things. It's the trade off you make: you can give people the option to do absolutely anything, but it comes with the fact that you are going to break the game. I'm sure you've tested your game in house for a long time, but if you had the hundreds of thousands of people that play D&D playing your game on a regular basis picking at your game trying to break it, I'm sure you'd find that no game is protected from finding something in it that looks broken. Where there's a will... Then again, I can't claim to know much about your game, but the concept of called shots being codified seems pretty clever. The idea of "Masteries" is clever also because, if I understand correctly, it's like you took apart the classes and put them in little building blocks, and you can sort of mix and match what you like and put all of it together. That's pretty interesting! It's like everyone is always multiclassing in some way. I'll have to agree to disagree with you in regards to 4.0. I think the combat in 4.0 is a lot more intricate and complex than in 3.5E, because by simplifying and codifying a large amount of the crazier mechanics, so combat itself plays closer to chess. It rewards being good at the actual combat part and being a clever tactician moreso than it rewards your ability to just make a character that can "solve everything" (which 3.5E is more about). While power is limited in 4E, I respectfully disagree about the variety of abilities or options... Feats: 3191 Items: 3553 Paragon Paths: 561 Classes: 45 Powers: 8845 If you count the possible combinations of hybrid classes, you actually have 540+ possible classes, and since just about any base class can take any multiclass feat, you end up with an insane amount of potential classes. If you feel like you're limited in feat selection because of feats you "have to take" (an Expertise feat and the Improved Defenses feat, both of which are "math fixes" to patch up math in 4E), then you can houserule both of those feats as free to all characters and you can truly create complex and interesting characters in 4E. I think you didn't sit down long enough with the system to make an accurate judgment, which is okay -- a lot of people don't get around to enjoying the core of the game because they get frustrated with the fact that it isn't 3.5E. However, I would advise against judging it too harshly -- it's a good game, just different. However, I'm curious -- if you were so concerned with D&D not being able to properly let you make heroes of a supernatural kind instead of the kind of heroes you'd see in movies, why didn't you pick a system that is more able to work in that regard? For instance, White Wolf's old Storyteller system is perfect for that. They made these games: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storytelling_SystemVampire: The Masquerade (1991) [2] Werewolf: The Apocalypse (1992) [3] Mage: The Ascension (1993) [4] Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game (1995) [5] Wraith: The Oblivion (1996) [6] Changeling: The Dreaming (1997) [7] Kindred of the East (1998) [8] Hunter: The Reckoning (1999) [9] Trinity (1999) [10] Exalted (2001) [11] Mummy: The Resurrection (2001) [12] Demon: The Fallen (2002) [13] Orpheus (2003) [14] Vampire: The Masquerade, 20th Anniversary Edition (2011) It seems like the kind of thing you want already existed, in a sense! You should check some of the more modern games from White Wolf, like the New World of Darkness core book. Anyway, I look forward to seeing your published product.
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